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"timing" problem in simulink using LUT and block "from workspace"

Hello

I'm using Simulink and HDL-Coder to generate code for some hardware algorithm for OCT (doesn't really matter for the problem underneath, therefore I stop my explanation about what I'm doing ;))

Recently I discovered a strange behavior when debugging in simulink: the input data (read in with the "from workspace" block) did not change on every clock, even though the input vector changes its value for every sample-time.
I checked the sample time (fixed step size) for the simulation as well as the sample time vector in the matlab code. But they fit to each other.

Therefore I made a small example to see, whether I could reproduce this 'error'. As you can see in the picture I have the simplest possible simulink model containing an 'from workspace' and a 'to workspace' block. using the settings from underneath I keep receiving a strange behavior for the output. the first half of the ramp is constantly increasing whereas the second half looks has some "edges" (a few samples are not loaded on time)

Settings/configs:
--> sample rate of the 'from workspace' block equals 0.1 (equals simulations fixed step size)
--> 'to workspace' block has sample time "inherited" (--> 0.1 as well)
--> matlab code (as in the screenshot) is:

dt = 0.1;
N = 200;
time = -0.01:dt:(N-1)*dt;
sample = linspace(0,N-1,N);
%samples = [time', sample'];
samples.time = time';
samples.signals.values = sample';
sim('test_data_read_in.mdl', N*dt);


You may know this problem from timing problems in hardware when not respecting the set-up-times for components and so on. But Simulink should NOT behave like hardware, I guess.. Despite that I tried to make the input-signals valid shortly before they will be read in (likely respecting set up time in hardware). And it worked! The ramp of the output data was neat!

Code:
dt = 0.1;
N = 200;
time = -0.01:dt:(N-1)*dt;
sample = linspace(0,N-1,N);
%samples = [time', sample'];
samples.time = time';
samples.signals.values = sample';
sim('test_data_read_in.mdl', N*dt);

I experienced the same problems with Lookup-tables.

Anybody encountered this problem before or has an idea how to avoid it?

Thanks a lot for your help!

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/screenshot2ew.png/][IMG]http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1954/screenshot2ew.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
0
baesae (4)
12/6/2011 4:20:08 PM
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I didn't know that I cannot embed the picture. here is the direct link: 
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/screenshot2ew.png/
0
baesae (4)
12/6/2011 4:29:08 PM
This is almost certainly due to numerical precision, and very closely related to question 6.1 of the MATLAB FAQ: http://matlab.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ (Why is 0.3 - 0.2 - 0.1 (or similar) not equal to zero?)

The time points in your input data, and the time points in Simulink may be very very close but not identical.
Hence the input data isn't changing _exactly_ when you are expecting it to.

The horizontal lines in the (output) data are indicative of this.

(The same issue would be occurring when using look-up tables.)

Phil.
0
phil9363 (124)
12/7/2011 10:18:11 AM
Thanks Phil

I was thinking of that, too. But lots of people here use Simulink to simulate data-paths and NONE of them ever experienced this 'malfunction'. That's why I wondered if anybody else experienced the same?

For the input data there is this workaround I mentioned. But do you have any idea what I could do for my lookup-tables? Or asked more generally: How can I avoid timing problems in Simulink? For the timing in hardware I have tools that I can configure. But in Simulink it seems that I have no means?

Anyways.. In my point of view the fixed-step discrete solver should be able to handle this..? Because this is an issue for most discrete simulations.
0
baesae (4)
12/7/2011 10:57:08 AM
A lot of the problem comes down to data types (and specifically the precision achievable when comparing two pieces of data with given data types).

You need to build into the model the correct comparison of the data to determine which values in the look-up table should be selected.

Your description makes it sound as if the x-axis of the look-up table is time dependent, in which case you should implement a discrete counter/clock for that signal, and give it an appropriate data type.
More generally the same thing applies even if the signal is not time.
Then the look-up table x-axis breakpoints should have the same data-type.
(Using double or single precision makes this hard as getting accurate comparison down to the bit level is hard, although with some work not impossible.)

Phil.
0
phil9363 (124)
12/8/2011 12:35:08 AM
Thanks again Phil

I finally worked this out. You were right with the data types. It was a dumb idea to take dt = 0.1 because the computer cannot sum up 0.1 without making rounding errors.

with dt = 1 (or generally dt = 2^n, n=integer +/-) the problem with the "from workspace" got solved.

same for the LUT. chosing uint16 as input-value solved the issue.
0
baesae (4)
12/8/2011 9:04:08 PM
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Hi, I am quite sure this question has answered here already several times, but I haven't found the answer yet. Anyway, here is the question again: I've got libraries (*.so) that are built with gcc 2.95.2. The gcc version, I've installed on my computer, is 3.xx and I don't have the source files of the libraries. Can I link those libraries without uninstalling my new 3.xx-compiler? Thanx for your answers in advance. Isn't there a secret flag like "gcc -useoldlib"? *g* Philipp "Philipp" <capri.sonne@gmx.de> wrote... > Hi, I am quite sure this question has answered here already several > times, but I haven't found the answer yet. Perhaps you haven't been looking in right places... > Anyway, here is the > question again: > > I've got libraries (*.so) that are built with gcc 2.95.2. The gcc > version, I've installed on my computer, is 3.xx and I don't have the > source files of the libraries. Can I link those libraries without > uninstalling my new 3.xx-compiler? Usually, yes. However, if you have a way to rebuild them, do. > Thanx for your answers in advance. Isn't there a secret flag like "gcc > -useoldlib"? *g* You would have to ask this in gnu.g++.help. BTW, the Standard C++ guarantees compatibility between compilers on the level of source code _only_. That concerns different versions of the same compiler too. So, if you need to know for sure whether GNU...

Problem ocean and OPT("V0" "pwr")
Hi alltogether, I'm trying to do some low-power Ring Oscillators. I'm using ocean-scripts to determine the correct dimensions of my transistors. But now for the problem : When using the ocnPrint( OPT("V0" "pwr") ) command inside the script, the result differs from the same output given by the graphical Frontend. (V0 is the voltage source for the whole system) Any Idea ? Thanks for your help, Stefan Stefan: See previous post entitled Subject: Re: Spectre simulation ADE vs command line. --- Erik "Stefan Joeres" <joeres@halifax.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message news:<btlujo$5k3$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>... > Hi alltogether, > > I'm trying to do some low-power Ring Oscillators. I'm using ocean-scripts to > determine the correct dimensions of my transistors. > But now for the problem : > > When using the ocnPrint( OPT("V0" "pwr") ) command inside the script, the > result differs from the same output given by the graphical Frontend. > (V0 is the voltage source for the whole system) > > Any Idea ? > > Thanks for your help, > > Stefan Hi Erik, thanks for the try, but the environment variable "CMI_CONFIG" isn't set (nil). Any more ideas ? Stefan Stefan: I meant to say post titled "Ocean vs CDE convergence". If you use the fullKey flag when writing the OCEAN script you should get all the options that are s...

"Delta" or "elapsed" time column in Oracle
Hello all. I browsed through the Oracle groups looking for an answer to this and I found it asked before but in different circumstances. I am trying to use a column to store just a time with no date. The other posters that I saw were told to just make sure the date is the same for all columns and use a normal date column. However, it appeared to me that most people that asked the question were looking for an absolute time-- i.e. 12:17AM and they just don't care about the date. I am looking to store an elapsed time, like 47 minutes and 20 seconds. I am trying to store race results and am therefore looking for a column type to store a value that I can easily do computations on. For example, "What is the mean time for all runners that are male and between the ages of 17 and 24?" or "select all runners where finish time is between 45 minutes and 50 minutes". The times I am loading into the table are ascii and in 'hh:mi:ss' format. I would appreciate some recommendations based on the queries I mentioned. I can easily write a program to convert the times to seconds and use an integer column, but I don't know if that is a good way to go. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bill, If I were you I'd store results in seconds. For example: NUMBER(9,3) can store any number of seconds up to about 10 days to 1/1000th of a second. You can write PL/SQL functons to do such things as: * convert HH:MM:SS to seconds * convert seconds to a 'hh:mm:ss'...

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