f



Pi printserver + OMV + Webmin?

Hi All,

I've had a RPi since the first big batch and kept up all the main
models (b's) all along but not really used any for anything permanent.

The other day I setup a 2 with OpenMediaVault (NAS) connected to a 3TB
laptop drive and that seems to be working pretty well. Yesterday I
first setup a Pi1 then 3 with Raspbian and made it into a print server
for my Dymo 450 LabelWriter. Again, they both worked but because I'm
not very good with Linux on the CLI, only really got anywhere (easily)
by having a GUI and access to the Internet to be able to copy and
paste easily or installing Webmin.

So, two questions really ... 1) seeing I now have two Pi's running ...
could I (easily / practically) combine the two roles onto one machine
and 2) if not (and there may be other reasons why I might not want to)
how would you restart Webmin and the current Raspbian DE / GUI
(Pixel?) if I set either not to start on boot (for what would be just
a print server). I know of 'startx' but not sure if that's still valid
and don't want to risk not being able to get back into the GUI again
(as I can stop both Webmin and the DE/GUI starting from within each
GUI)?

Cheers, T i m

 
0
T
12/23/2016 9:24:45 AM
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On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:24:45 +0000,
T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
<qgpp5chuote2137ad3o9j89nih6btreqbp@4ax.com> wrote:

>  So, two questions really ... 1) seeing I now have two Pi's running ...
>  could I (easily / practically) combine the two roles onto one machine

Yes. Whether that is practical depends on how much of a load those
roles will demand. I'm going to lean towards yes, as the load
shouldn't be overwhelming.

>  and 2) if not (and there may be other reasons why I might not want to)
>  how would you restart Webmin and the current Raspbian DE / GUI
>  (Pixel?) if I set either not to start on boot (for what would be just
>  a print server). I know of 'startx' but not sure if that's still valid
>  and don't want to risk not being able to get back into the GUI again
>  (as I can stop both Webmin and the DE/GUI starting from within each
>  GUI)?

startx still works, and that functionality will continue to work even
if startx goes away.

Alternatively, if your non-pi device(s) support ssh + X windows
forwarding, you can run your pi's as a, umm, servers that doesn't
automatically start X. Then you can invoke whatever X application you
need remotely.

Additionally, Webmin is accessible from a web browser, generally
connecting to the right ip address and port 10000: http://x.x.x.x:10000/

If you already have Webmin installed, then the last one should work
well for you.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
0
I
12/23/2016 6:30:02 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:30:02 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
<n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:24:45 +0000,
>T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
><qgpp5chuote2137ad3o9j89nih6btreqbp@4ax.com> wrote:
>
>>  So, two questions really ... 1) seeing I now have two Pi's running ...
>>  could I (easily / practically) combine the two roles onto one machine
>
>Yes. Whether that is practical depends on how much of a load those
>roles will demand. I'm going to lean towards yes, as the load
>shouldn't be overwhelming.

Thanks. I see the roles as fairly complementary, file and print
serving. File should be mostly network i/o whereas printing might be a
bit more CPU?
>
>>  and 2) if not (and there may be other reasons why I might not want to)
>>  how would you restart Webmin and the current Raspbian DE / GUI
>>  (Pixel?) if I set either not to start on boot (for what would be just
>>  a print server). I know of 'startx' but not sure if that's still valid
>>  and don't want to risk not being able to get back into the GUI again
>>  (as I can stop both Webmin and the DE/GUI starting from within each
>>  GUI)?
>
>startx still works, and that functionality will continue to work even
>if startx goes away.

Ok and more specifically then ... if I go into the DE configuration
(on Rasparian / Pixel) and select 'Don't start the GUI at boot', and
later I find I need it, should I be able to start it by typing
'startx' at the cli?
>
>Alternatively, if your non-pi device(s) support ssh + X windows
>forwarding, you can run your pi's as a, umm, servers that doesn't
>automatically start X. Then you can invoke whatever X application you
>need remotely.

I'm not sure I follow that but it may not matter ...
>
>Additionally, Webmin is accessible from a web browser, generally
>connecting to the right ip address and port 10000: http://x.x.x.x:10000/
>
>If you already have Webmin installed, then the last one should work
>well for you.

Yes, I have and it does but again, I see an option in Webmin to *not*
start at boot, so if I selected that and then later needed it, how
would I start it again (locally or via SSH etc)?

Cheers, T i m

0
T
12/23/2016 7:16:07 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:16:07 +0000,
T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
<sktq5c1r3nidcticvvg49k9u3m0iatsa8f@4ax.com> wrote:
>  On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:30:02 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
> <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:24:45 +0000,
> >T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
> ><qgpp5chuote2137ad3o9j89nih6btreqbp@4ax.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  So, two questions really ... 1) seeing I now have two Pi's running ...
> >>  could I (easily / practically) combine the two roles onto one machine
> >
> >Yes. Whether that is practical depends on how much of a load those
> >roles will demand. I'm going to lean towards yes, as the load
> >shouldn't be overwhelming.
> 
>  Thanks. I see the roles as fairly complementary, file and print
>  serving. File should be mostly network i/o whereas printing might be a
>  bit more CPU?

It depends on where the rasterizing of the image occurs for Dymo
labelwriters. I would presume that most of the work is done on the
machine trying to do the printing, and not on the print server or the
labelwriter. So it really comes down to network and then USB i/o.

> >>  and 2) if not (and there may be other reasons why I might not want to)
> >>  how would you restart Webmin and the current Raspbian DE / GUI
> >>  (Pixel?) if I set either not to start on boot (for what would be just
> >>  a print server). I know of 'startx' but not sure if that's still valid
> >>  and don't want to risk not being able to get back into the GUI again
> >>  (as I can stop both Webmin and the DE/GUI starting from within each
> >>  GUI)?
> >
> >startx still works, and that functionality will continue to work even
> >if startx goes away.
> 
>  Ok and more specifically then ... if I go into the DE configuration
>  (on Rasparian / Pixel) and select 'Don't start the GUI at boot', and
>  later I find I need it, should I be able to start it by typing
>  'startx' at the cli?

Correct.

> >Alternatively, if your non-pi device(s) support ssh + X windows
> >forwarding, you can run your pi's as a, umm, servers that doesn't
> >automatically start X. Then you can invoke whatever X application you
> >need remotely.
> 
>  I'm not sure I follow that but it may not matter ...
> 
> >Additionally, Webmin is accessible from a web browser, generally
> >connecting to the right ip address and port 10000: http://x.x.x.x:10000/
> >
> >If you already have Webmin installed, then the last one should work
> >well for you.
> 
>  Yes, I have and it does but again, I see an option in Webmin to *not*
>  start at boot, so if I selected that and then later needed it, how
>  would I start it again (locally or via SSH etc)?

If you login locally, ignore the ssh part.

ssh user@mypi

sudo service webmin start
-or- sudo /etc/init.d/webmin start

should do the trick. 

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
0
I
12/23/2016 9:25:42 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 21:25:42 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
<n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

>>  Thanks. I see the roles as fairly complementary, file and print
>>  serving. File should be mostly network i/o whereas printing might be a
>>  bit more CPU?
>
>It depends on where the rasterizing of the image occurs for Dymo
>labelwriters. I would presume that most of the work is done on the
>machine trying to do the printing, and not on the print server or the
>labelwriter.

You are probably right. ;-)

>So it really comes down to network and then USB i/o.

Agreed.
>
<snip>
>> 
>>  Ok and more specifically then ... if I go into the DE configuration
>>  (on Rasparian / Pixel) and select 'Don't start the GUI at boot', and
>>  later I find I need it, should I be able to start it by typing
>>  'startx' at the cli?
>
>Correct.

Cool ... and I just tested it and it works as suggested. ;-)
>

<snip>

>>  Yes, I have and it does but again, I see an option in Webmin to *not*
>>  start at boot, so if I selected that and then later needed it, how
>>  would I start it again (locally or via SSH etc)?
>
>If you login locally, ignore the ssh part.

Understood.
>
>ssh user@mypi

I've only used Putty from Windows so far and that works but it would
seem SSH isn't running from boot, even though I think it should be
according to Webmin.
>
>sudo service webmin start

That didn't seem to work locally but since seems to work remotely (via
SSL) so may have been finger trouble. ;-(

>-or- sudo /etc/init.d/webmin start
>should do the trick. 

That worked both locally and remotely (thanks). ;-)

So, I can start the DE / GUI with 'startx' at the local CLI.

How would I stop it please (to save rebooting)?

I can start (and stop) Webmin locally or via SSH.

Should SSH (typically) start on boot and if so, can you tell me why
when Webmin suggests it should it doesn't seem to be (as Webmin give
me the SSH start option and then the stop option).

I'm going to print all the key commands (above) on a big Dymo label
and stick it to the underside of the Pi case. ;-)

You never know, once I've typed them 1000 times I might remember them!
;-)

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/23/2016 10:42:54 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000, T i m wrote:

>>
>>It depends on where the rasterizing of the image occurs for Dymo
>>labelwriters. I would presume that most of the work is done on the
>>machine trying to do the printing, and not on the print server or the
>>labelwriter.
> 
> You are probably right. ;-)
> 
>>So it really comes down to network and then USB i/o.
>
One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer spec. 
If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS (XPSDRiv) 
device then printer can only accept a bitstream, which contains nothing 
except a bitmapped image of the page, as opposed to a character stream 
containing ASCII or UTF8 character codes intermixed with sequences 
('Escape sequences') that select font size, font weight, underlining etc.

GDI printers will need a fast USB connection to work at a decent speed, 
probably USB 3 at a minimum to handle a high resolution bitstream, while 
those that accept a character stream will be adequately fast with USB 1 
or USB 2 connections.

NOTE: that the Linux/UNIX print management system is CUPS which uses 
printer-specific drivers to handle translation between the character 
stream output by the program you're using and the modified character or 
bitstream the printer understands.

If there's a CUPS driver for your printer, then configure it and be 
happy. If there isn't, but your printer is a member of a printer family 
that all accept a character stream containing escape sequences, then your 
choices are wider. 

The printers I know that form families are Epson printers that accept 
'Esc/P' control sequences and HP Laserjet printers, which understand HPLJ 
control sequences. In both cases each newer printer added more control 
codes but are backward compatible with earlier models. This opens your 
possibilities: if you configure CUPS to use an earlier model within these 
families when CUPS doesn't recognise the newer printer you have, the 
printer will still work perfectly, but can't handle the 'latest printer 
twiddles': if you don't use these, then you've lost nothing. If you 
REALLY,REALLY need the latest twiddle then, because CUPS is open source, 
you can volunteer to create a new printer driver for it or raise a bug 
asking for the new printer to be supported.

For instance, an Epson Stylus colour printer works perfectly well if you 
tell CUPS its an MX-80 (80 col 9-pin monochrome dot matrix printer from 
the late '70s) or an LQ-500 (120 col 24 pin monochrome dot-matrix printer 
from the late 80s) but of course you'll only see a reduced set of fonts 
and sizes in black and white if you do this. But - it may well get the 
job done for you. 

How I know this? Been there and done it many times. I'm a satisfied owner 
of an Epson LQ-500 and a HP LJ5.



-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/23/2016 11:34:52 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:34:52 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

> One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer
> spec. If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS
> (XPSDRiv) device then printer can only accept a bitstream,

	Yes for 'Windows printer', GDI and XPS - but not PostScript which is
a very powerful device indpendent page description language originally
designed for professional typesetters. I'd take a PostScript printer in
preference to PCL or ESC/P any day.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/
0
Ahem
12/24/2016 6:13:22 AM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 06:13:22 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:34:52 -0000 (UTC)
> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer
>> spec. If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS
>> (XPSDRiv) device then printer can only accept a bitstream,
> 
> 	Yes for 'Windows printer', GDI and XPS - but not PostScript which 
is
> a very powerful device indpendent page description language originally
> designed for professional typesetters. I'd take a PostScript printer in
> preference to PCL or ESC/P any day.

I got the impression that some, at least Postscript printers did 
rendering in the driver, which is what I was referring to. Same would go 
for Postscript renderers like ghostscript. 

But my real point was that, if a driver or rendering package is used to 
spit a bitstream at the printer, than it may be rather slow if its on a 
USB 1 connection. I imagine that the using ghostscript as a postscript 
renderer on an RPi 1 or 2 could be glacially slow.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 10:57:04 AM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 06:13:22 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:34:52 -0000 (UTC)
>Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>
>> One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer
>> spec. If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS
>> (XPSDRiv) device then printer can only accept a bitstream,
>
>	Yes for 'Windows printer', GDI and XPS - but not PostScript which is
>a very powerful device indpendent page description language originally
>designed for professional typesetters. I'd take a PostScript printer in
>preference to PCL or ESC/P any day.

Is the next step where R.I.P.s come into this OOI?

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/24/2016 12:35:05 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:34:52 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000, T i m wrote:
>
>>>
>>>It depends on where the rasterizing of the image occurs for Dymo
>>>labelwriters. I would presume that most of the work is done on the
>>>machine trying to do the printing, and not on the print server or the
>>>labelwriter.
>> 
>> You are probably right. ;-)
>> 
>>>So it really comes down to network and then USB i/o.
>>
>One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer spec. 
>If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS (XPSDRiv) 
>device then printer can only accept a bitstream, which contains nothing 
>except a bitmapped image of the page, as opposed to a character stream 
>containing ASCII or UTF8 character codes intermixed with sequences 
>('Escape sequences') that select font size, font weight, underlining etc.
>
<snip good stuff for brevity>

So, OOI and from the Dymo 450 LabelWriter tech ref manual:

"All 450 series printer models connect to a host computer through a
standard full-speed USB 2.0-compatible interface. There are no
built-in fonts. The host computer is responsible for sending commands
and data to the printer to form each individual raster line of data.
This is generally performed by printer drivers in the host computer
that convert the image of the label into the proper command and data
stream required by the printers."

So that makes it a GDI printer then I'm guessing?

And:

"Printer Commands and Control 
The printers support two types of commands through the USB interface:
data commands and USB interface commands. As with all USB printers,
data commands for imaging a page are provided to the printer through
the Bulk OUT endpoint. For information on USB interface commands,
refer to the Universal Serial Bus Device Class Definition for Printing
Devices document.

Data commands for printing consist of print data and ESC commands.
Print data is used to define the dot pattern to print for each raster
line. ESC commands (commands preceded by an ASCII <esc> character,
0x1b) are commands that change printer parameters, such as margins and
raster line offsets. All printer parameters are set to specific
default values by a power-on reset or software reset command from the
host computer. Parameters can be modified by the host computer at any
time and will take effect as soon as the modifications are sent."

<http://download.dymo.com/dymo/technical-data-sheets/LW%20450%20Series%20Technical%20Reference.pdf>

Cheers, T i m


0
T
12/24/2016 12:53:31 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 12:53:31 +0000, T i m wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:34:52 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
> <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000, T i m wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>It depends on where the rasterizing of the image occurs for Dymo
>>>>labelwriters. I would presume that most of the work is done on the
>>>>machine trying to do the printing, and not on the print server or the
>>>>labelwriter.
>>> 
>>> You are probably right. ;-)
>>> 
>>>>So it really comes down to network and then USB i/o.
>>>
>>One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer
>>spec.
>>If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS (XPSDRiv)
>>device then printer can only accept a bitstream, which contains nothing
>>except a bitmapped image of the page, as opposed to a character stream
>>containing ASCII or UTF8 character codes intermixed with sequences
>>('Escape sequences') that select font size, font weight, underlining
>>etc.
>>
> <snip good stuff for brevity>
> 
> So, OOI and from the Dymo 450 LabelWriter tech ref manual:
> 
> "All 450 series printer models connect to a host computer through a
> standard full-speed USB 2.0-compatible interface. There are no built-in
> fonts. The host computer is responsible for sending commands and data to
> the printer to form each individual raster line of data.
> This is generally performed by printer drivers in the host computer that
> convert the image of the label into the proper command and data stream
> required by the printers."
> 
> So that makes it a GDI printer then I'm guessing?
>
Yes. And the following stuff (omitted) just amplifies that by saying that 
the printer can also act as an image scanner and giving more detail about 
using it as a printer.
 
Does CUPS provide a print driver for it?

BTW, seeing that CUPS is primarily a print spooler (it accepts and queues 
lists of documents to be printed on one or more configured printers), it 
almost certainly can't use the printer as a scanner. To do that you'd 
need a suitable scan program and a TWAIN driver for the printer. TWAIN is 
a universal interface between scanners and scanning applications - think 
of it as a reverse of CUPS. 

I've used Vuescan as the scanning application on a Linux laptop to drive 
a Minolta Scan-Dual IV slide scanner. That worked OK and represents my 
total experience with scanners and scanning.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 2:09:10 PM
On 2016-12-24, T i m wrote:
>So, OOI and from the Dymo 450 LabelWriter tech ref manual:
>
>"All 450 series printer models connect to a host computer through a
>standard full-speed USB 2.0-compatible interface. There are no
>built-in fonts. The host computer is responsible for sending commands
>and data to the printer to form each individual raster line of data.
>This is generally performed by printer drivers in the host computer
>that convert the image of the label into the proper command and data
>stream required by the printers."
>
>So that makes it a GDI printer then I'm guessing?

That's certainly the case: the RPi print server will have to output
raw print commands. (But this is a label printer, so the bitmaps
aren't huge by modern standards.)

The question remaining is just what is meant by a print server. For
example, it's entirely possible to configure lpd or cups such that
clients talk good honest PostScript or even PDF to the print server,
which uses GhostScript to render and rasterise for the specific
printer.

Alternatively, this may be the Windows brain-dead version of printing
(as the Dymo manual assumes), where every individual client has to
have a driver installed for every printer it can use. In which case
there'd be rasterised data flowing both in and out of the print
server, which is more likely to congest the network/USB interface.
0
Roger
12/24/2016 2:14:32 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:09:10 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

>Yes. And the following stuff (omitted) just amplifies that by saying that 
>the printer can also act as an image scanner and giving more detail about 
>using it as a printer.
> 
>Does CUPS provide a print driver for it?

Dymo provide one Martin that seems to work. ;-)
>
>BTW, seeing that CUPS is primarily a print spooler (it accepts and queues 
>lists of documents to be printed on one or more configured printers), it 
>almost certainly can't use the printer as a scanner.

<snip>

There will be no issue there as this is *just* a little (thermal)
label printer.

http://www.dymo.com/en-GB/labelwriter-450-label-printer

Dymo do both a 'wireless' label printer and a print server but they
are both expensive and potentially not as flexible or as good VFM as
the straight USB printer and 'a' PrintServer.

I also have a TP-Link PS on it's way and if that works with the Dymo
450 I'll keep the Pi for more interesting / worthy tasks. ;-)

Cheers, T i m


0
T
12/24/2016 2:35:29 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:14:32 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West
<roger+csrp201612@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

>On 2016-12-24, T i m wrote:
>>So, OOI and from the Dymo 450 LabelWriter tech ref manual:
>>
>>"All 450 series printer models connect to a host computer through a
>>standard full-speed USB 2.0-compatible interface. There are no
>>built-in fonts. The host computer is responsible for sending commands
>>and data to the printer to form each individual raster line of data.
>>This is generally performed by printer drivers in the host computer
>>that convert the image of the label into the proper command and data
>>stream required by the printers."
>>
>>So that makes it a GDI printer then I'm guessing?
>
>That's certainly the case: the RPi print server will have to output
>raw print commands. (But this is a label printer, so the bitmaps
>aren't huge by modern standards.)

Judging by how fast the whole process works (Windows client print job
to graphical label coming out of the printer), it's all pretty small.
;-)
>
>The question remaining is just what is meant by a print server. For
>example, it's entirely possible to configure lpd or cups such that
>clients talk good honest PostScript or even PDF to the print server,
>which uses GhostScript to render and rasterise for the specific
>printer.

>Alternatively, this may be the Windows brain-dead version of printing
>(as the Dymo manual assumes), where every individual client has to
>have a driver installed for every printer it can use. In which case
>there'd be rasterised data flowing both in and out of the print
>server, which is more likely to congest the network/USB interface.

The thing is with a maxim resolution of 300 x 600 dpi and labels not
much bigger than (AFAIK) 59 x 190 mm  (~ 2.25 x 7.5") then even a big
picture should amount to much data?

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/24/2016 2:46:20 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 10:57:04 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 06:13:22 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:34:52 -0000 (UTC)
> > Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >> One way to tell where rasterisation occurs is to look at the printer
> >> spec. If it claims to be a 'Windows printer', GDI, Postscript or XPS
> >> (XPSDRiv) device then printer can only accept a bitstream,
> > 
> > 	Yes for 'Windows printer', GDI and XPS - but not PostScript
> > which 
> is
> > a very powerful device indpendent page description language originally
> > designed for professional typesetters. I'd take a PostScript printer in
> > preference to PCL or ESC/P any day.
> 
> I got the impression that some, at least Postscript printers did 
> rendering in the driver, which is what I was referring to.

	That can of course be done, but it's a hideous thing to do if you
have a PostScript printer. I'd not call it a PostScript printer unless it
speaks the language without external support, otherwise everything
supported by ghostscript would count.

> Same would go 
> for Postscript renderers like ghostscript. 

	Oh sure ghostscript pretty much has to dump bit images even with
ESC/P and PCL printers.

> But my real point was that, if a driver or rendering package is used to 
> spit a bitstream at the printer, than it may be rather slow if its on a 
> USB 1 connection.

	A page is about 200 megabits (24 bit colour, 8x11, 300dpi) so at
low speed that would be just over two minutes per page (plus overhead) but
at high speed it's only about 17 seconds (plus overhead) which isn't too bad
and might make processing speed the limiting factor. That's raw images, any
kind of compression will make it a lot better for simple pages with few
colours.

> I imagine that the using ghostscript as a postscript 
> renderer on an RPi 1 or 2 could be glacially slow.

	I doubt it would be glacial, I've used ghostscript as far back as
80486 based machines sending bit streams to HP inkjet printers over a
parallel port - that's gacial! Compared to that an RPi 1 would fly :)

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/
0
Ahem
12/24/2016 3:42:17 PM
On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000,
T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
<239r5cdh3d2nbvg6o3gubri4cpls5gufva@4ax.com> wrote:
>  On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 21:25:42 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
> <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>  I've only used Putty from Windows so far and that works but it would
>  seem SSH isn't running from boot, even though I think it should be
>  according to Webmin.
> >
> >sudo service webmin start
> 
>  That didn't seem to work locally but since seems to work remotely (via
>  SSL) so may have been finger trouble. ;-(

Or you don't have a systemd system.

> >-or- sudo /etc/init.d/webmin start
> >should do the trick. 
> 
>  That worked both locally and remotely (thanks). ;-)
> 
>  So, I can start the DE / GUI with 'startx' at the local CLI.
> 
>  How would I stop it please (to save rebooting)?

Hit the Logout button. You should be dropped back to your terminal. If
you want to be rude about it, control-alt-backspace might do it,
unless X got configured to ignore that sequence.

>  I can start (and stop) Webmin locally or via SSH.
> 
>  Should SSH (typically) start on boot and if so, can you tell me why
>  when Webmin suggests it should it doesn't seem to be (as Webmin give
>  me the SSH start option and then the stop option).

No clue. I generally don't use webmin. I found this, which may help
https://blog.retep.org/2012/06/18/getting-sshd-to-run-on-boot/
which suggests

sudo apt-get install ssh (which you'v done)
sudo update-rc.d ssh defaults

Every Debian I've installed openssh-server on starts it automatically.

>  I'm going to print all the key commands (above) on a big Dymo label
>  and stick it to the underside of the Pi case. ;-)
> 
>  You never know, once I've typed them 1000 times I might remember them!
>  ;-)

"I wrote them down in my diary so that I wouldn't *have* to remember."

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
0
I
12/24/2016 5:13:41 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:42:17 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 10:57:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>> I got the impression that some, at least Postscript printers did
>> rendering in the driver, which is what I was referring to.
> 
> 	That can of course be done, but it's a hideous thing to do if you
> have a PostScript printer. I'd not call it a PostScript printer unless
> it speaks the language without external support, otherwise everything
> supported by ghostscript would count.
>
Yes, I'm with you there about the definition, but would just point out 
that flogging a GDI printer with a driver that converts Postscript to 
bitstream, badge-engineered as a Postscript printer, is a damn cheap way 
of 'making' and selling one.

>> Same would go for Postscript renderers like ghostscript.
> 
> 	Oh sure ghostscript pretty much has to dump bit images even with
> ESC/P and PCL printers.
>
Yes, of course.
 
> 	I doubt it would be glacial, I've used ghostscript as far back as
> 80486 based machines sending bit streams to HP inkjet printers over a
> parallel port - that's gacial! Compared to that an RPi 1 would fly :)
>
Fair comment.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 5:50:51 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:35:29 +0000, T i m wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:09:10 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
> <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>Yes. And the following stuff (omitted) just amplifies that by saying
>>that the printer can also act as an image scanner and giving more detail
>>about using it as a printer.
>> 
>>Does CUPS provide a print driver for it?
> 
> Dymo provide one Martin that seems to work. ;-)
>
Good stuff!

Similarly, I keep my old Epson LQ-500 around because, on the few 
occasions I need to print address labels, I already have code that can 
print on one-up labels on sprocketed carriers. Besides, the LQ-500 is 
dead reliable - haul it out, blow the dust off, plug it in and its away.

OTOH writing code that can do that on a page-mode LaserJet without 
wasting part-printed pages of labels is not a trivial undertaking.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 5:58:41 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:13:41 +0000, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000,
> T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in

>>  You never know, once I've typed them 1000 times I might remember them!
>>  ;-)
> 
> "I wrote them down in my diary so that I wouldn't *have* to remember."
>
Two bash commands everybody should know

"apropos subject", e.g. 'apropos CUPS' lists all commands with CUPS or
                   cups in its manpage one-line summary
                   And if you think it missed something obvious,
                   run "sudo updatedb" to update the apropos database.

"man subject"      Goes without saying, really. Manpages are the
                   motherlode of info about commands, their config files
                   and C library functions, though do run "man man" at
                   least once to get some idea of the manpage subdivisions
                   Try "man getopt" and "man 3 getopt" to see what I mean.
 
                  
-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 6:13:17 PM
On 2016-12-24, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>"apropos subject", e.g. 'apropos CUPS' lists all commands with CUPS or
>                   cups in its manpage one-line summary
>                   And if you think it missed something obvious,
>                   run "sudo updatedb" to update the apropos database.

man -k is quicker to type, once you remember it.
0
Roger
12/24/2016 6:24:04 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:13:41 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
<n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000,
>T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
><239r5cdh3d2nbvg6o3gubri4cpls5gufva@4ax.com> wrote:
>>  On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 21:25:42 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
>> <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>  I've only used Putty from Windows so far and that works but it would
>>  seem SSH isn't running from boot, even though I think it should be
>>  according to Webmin.
>> >
>> >sudo service webmin start
>> 
>>  That didn't seem to work locally but since seems to work remotely (via
>>  SSL) so may have been finger trouble. ;-(
>
>Or you don't have a systemd system.

I just tried it again and it was my typo (sorry).
>
<snip>

>>  So, I can start the DE / GUI with 'startx' at the local CLI.
>> 
>>  How would I stop it please (to save rebooting)?
>
>Hit the Logout button. You should be dropped back to your terminal.

Doh. 'Normally' when playing with Linux, if I select 'Logout' I'm left
at a GUI Login box so didn't think to check that. This gives me Logout
to command prompt so just what I wanted. ;-)

>If
>you want to be rude about it, control-alt-backspace might do it,
>unless X got configured to ignore that sequence.

Noted.
>
>>  I can start (and stop) Webmin locally or via SSH.
>> 
>>  Should SSH (typically) start on boot and if so, can you tell me why
>>  when Webmin suggests it should it doesn't seem to be (as Webmin give
>>  me the SSH start option and then the stop option).
>
>No clue. I generally don't use webmin. I found this, which may help
>https://blog.retep.org/2012/06/18/getting-sshd-to-run-on-boot/
>which suggests
>
>sudo apt-get install ssh (which you'v done)
>sudo update-rc.d ssh defaults

I just tried that (the latter), rebooted and started Webmin and that
suggests that SSH still isn't started (but SSH starts from the cli as
per your Webmin instructions).
>
>Every Debian I've installed openssh-server on starts it automatically.

Well it did work initially so I'm sure it's something I've done
(inadvertently or a bug etc).
>
>>  I'm going to print all the key commands (above) on a big Dymo label
>>  and stick it to the underside of the Pi case. ;-)
>> 
>>  You never know, once I've typed them 1000 times I might remember them!
>>  ;-)
>
>"I wrote them down in my diary so that I wouldn't *have* to remember."

Indiana Jones?

Thanks again for your noob tips on this mate.

I believe the following is the ssh config file from Webmin (in case it
tell anyone anything):

"# Package generated configuration file
# See the sshd_config(5) manpage for details

# What ports, IPs and protocols we listen for
Port 22
# Use these options to restrict which interfaces/protocols sshd will
bind to
#ListenAddress ::
#ListenAddress 0.0.0.0
Protocol 2
# HostKeys for protocol version 2
HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key
HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key
HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key
HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key
#Privilege Separation is turned on for security
UsePrivilegeSeparation yes

# Lifetime and size of ephemeral version 1 server key
KeyRegenerationInterval 3600
ServerKeyBits 1024

# Logging
SyslogFacility AUTH
LogLevel INFO

# Authentication:
LoginGraceTime 120
PermitRootLogin without-password
StrictModes yes

RSAAuthentication yes
PubkeyAuthentication yes
#AuthorizedKeysFile	%h/.ssh/authorized_keys

# Don't read the user's ~/.rhosts and ~/.shosts files
IgnoreRhosts yes
# For this to work you will also need host keys in
/etc/ssh_known_hosts
RhostsRSAAuthentication no
# similar for protocol version 2
HostbasedAuthentication no
# Uncomment if you don't trust ~/.ssh/known_hosts for
RhostsRSAAuthentication
#IgnoreUserKnownHosts yes

# To enable empty passwords, change to yes (NOT RECOMMENDED)
PermitEmptyPasswords no

# Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues
with
# some PAM modules and threads)
ChallengeResponseAuthentication no

# Change to no to disable tunnelled clear text passwords
#PasswordAuthentication yes

# Kerberos options
#KerberosAuthentication no
#KerberosGetAFSToken no
#KerberosOrLocalPasswd yes
#KerberosTicketCleanup yes

# GSSAPI options
#GSSAPIAuthentication no
#GSSAPICleanupCredentials yes

X11Forwarding yes
X11DisplayOffset 10
PrintMotd no
PrintLastLog yes
TCPKeepAlive yes
#UseLogin no

#MaxStartups 10:30:60
#Banner /etc/issue.net

# Allow client to pass locale environment variables
AcceptEnv LANG LC_*

Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server

# Set this to 'yes' to enable PAM authentication, account processing,
# and session processing. If this is enabled, PAM authentication will
# be allowed through the ChallengeResponseAuthentication and
# PasswordAuthentication.  Depending on your PAM configuration,
# PAM authentication via ChallengeResponseAuthentication may bypass
# the setting of "PermitRootLogin without-password".
# If you just want the PAM account and session checks to run without
# PAM authentication, then enable this but set PasswordAuthentication
# and ChallengeResponseAuthentication to 'no'.
UsePAM yes"


Cheers, T i m

0
T
12/24/2016 6:34:38 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:58:41 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:35:29 +0000, T i m wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 14:09:10 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
>> <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>>Yes. And the following stuff (omitted) just amplifies that by saying
>>>that the printer can also act as an image scanner and giving more detail
>>>about using it as a printer.
>>> 
>>>Does CUPS provide a print driver for it?
>> 
>> Dymo provide one Martin that seems to work. ;-)
>>
>Good stuff!
>
>Similarly, I keep my old Epson LQ-500 around because, on the few 
>occasions I need to print address labels, I already have code that can 
>print on one-up labels on sprocketed carriers. Besides, the LQ-500 is 
>dead reliable - haul it out, blow the dust off, plug it in and its away.

I still have my Star LC10 and my DJ500 (for some reason). ;-)
>
>OTOH writing code that can do that on a page-mode LaserJet without 
>wasting part-printed pages of labels is not a trivial undertaking.

Or you play the 'turn the page of labels over' so you don't waste as
many ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/24/2016 6:37:58 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:37:58 +0000, T i m wrote:

> Or you play the 'turn the page of labels over' so you don't waste as
> many ... ;-(
> 
I have a bad tendency to print them one at a time, so what I really need 
is a fairly simple way of telling 'start at the 3rd label on the second 
row', which probably means using some sort of GUI, even if it is a 4GL 
screen. 

The set-up I currently have is designed to either print on one-up labels 
on carrier with sprockets holes or to print on the middle of a large 
variety of envelopes using the LQ-500 - the 4GL maintains a database of 
envelope and label definitions alongside the address database.
 
 

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 7:19:29 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:34:38 +0000, T i m wrote:

> I just tried that (the latter), rebooted and started Webmin and that
> suggests that SSH still isn't started (but SSH starts from the cli as
> per your Webmin instructions).
>
If you're talking to the RPi from PuTTY, you need to have sshd installed 
on the RPi. On most Linux distros sshd is a separate package from ssh, so 
you need to make sure that that is configured appropriately and is 
starting at boot time.

If you want to use graphical X, you also need to have an X-terminal 
package installed on the Windows box (PuTTY only provides an X-term text-
mode terminal) and you'll need to configure sshd to allow X11 forwarding.
Both the ssh and sshd configuration files are in /etc/ssh by default and 
both are well enough commented that you may not need to read the config 
file manpage ('man 5 ssh_config' or 'man 5 sshd_config' in Fedora Linux 
so probably the same in Debian).



-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 7:32:36 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:13:41 +0000, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000,
>> T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
>
>>>  You never know, once I've typed them 1000 times I might remember them!
>>>  ;-)
>> 
>> "I wrote them down in my diary so that I wouldn't *have* to remember."
>>
>Two bash commands everybody should know
>
>"apropos subject", e.g. 'apropos CUPS' lists all commands with CUPS or
>                   cups in its manpage one-line summary
>                   And if you think it missed something obvious,
>                   run "sudo updatedb" to update the apropos database.
>
>"man subject"      Goes without saying, really. Manpages are the
>                   motherlode of info about commands, their config files
>                   and C library functions, though do run "man man" at
>                   least once to get some idea of the manpage subdivisions
>                   Try "man getopt" and "man 3 getopt" to see what I mean.
> 
>                  
The problem with that (from a Linux noobs POV) is that in most help
provided by such methods only helps those who are already computer
code literate or have a mind that is attune to / with such things.
Mine isn't and in spite of building, installing and maintaining PC's,
servers, network systems and providing CS at all sorts of levels for
many year ... along with being a CNI, MCT and A+CT ... I've never done
much in the way of programming, created a website or even a
spreadsheet for that matter!

Being a poor / slow typist, poor speller having a terrible short term
memory (for illogical / un-intuitive stuff) makes command copy-typing
pretty unpredictable, hence why I like to have a GUI and a browser as
at least I can then copy-paste etc. ;-)

I generally know what I want and sometimes how to get it, as long as I
can do so by clicking / exploring etc. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/24/2016 8:08:01 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 19:19:29 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:37:58 +0000, T i m wrote:
>
>> Or you play the 'turn the page of labels over' so you don't waste as
>> many ... ;-(
>> 
>I have a bad tendency to print them one at a time, so what I really need 
>is a fairly simple way of telling 'start at the 3rd label on the second 
>row', which probably means using some sort of GUI, even if it is a 4GL 
>screen. 

This is where this little Dymo 450 comes into it's own, only printing
one label at a time. ;-)
>
>The set-up I currently have is designed to either print on one-up labels 
>on carrier with sprockets holes

Didn't we call that 'tractor feed'?

> or to print on the middle of a large 
>variety of envelopes using the LQ-500 - the 4GL maintains a database of 
>envelope and label definitions alongside the address database.
> 
Luckily, I've never had to print many address / envelopes, even though
I've had printers that have facilities to make doing so easier (also
onto CD's etc).

Cheers, T i m


0
T
12/24/2016 8:16:10 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 19:32:36 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:34:38 +0000, T i m wrote:
>
>> I just tried that (the latter), rebooted and started Webmin and that
>> suggests that SSH still isn't started (but SSH starts from the cli as
>> per your Webmin instructions).
>>
>If you're talking to the RPi from PuTTY, you need to have sshd installed 
>on the RPi.

Oh?

>On most Linux distros sshd is a separate package from ssh, so 
>you need to make sure that that is configured appropriately and is 
>starting at boot time.

I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on
the Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?
>
>If you want to use graphical X, you also need to have an X-terminal 
>package installed on the Windows box (PuTTY only provides an X-term text-
>mode terminal) and you'll need to configure sshd to allow X11 forwarding.
>Both the ssh and sshd configuration files are in /etc/ssh by default and 
>both are well enough commented that you may not need to read the config 
>file manpage ('man 5 ssh_config' or 'man 5 sshd_config' in Fedora Linux 
>so probably the same in Debian).

That sounds a bit advanced for my needs this time Martin but thanks
anyway. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

0
T
12/24/2016 8:20:19 PM
On 2016-12-24, T i m wrote:
>I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on
>the Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?

sshd was enabled by default until the most recent version of Raspbian;
now it's not (as a security measure because of default passwords), and
at least for me the standard method for enabling it pre-boot (i.e.
creating a file boot/ssh on the SD card image) doesn't work either.
0
Roger
12/24/2016 9:08:32 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 20:16:10 +0000, T i m wrote:

> Didn't we call that 'tractor feed'?
>
I *knew* there was a name for it!
 
> Luckily, I've never had to print many address / envelopes, even though
> I've had printers that have facilities to make doing so easier (also
> onto CD's etc).
>
Nope, never had a store-bought program that could do that, though 
somebody used to sell sticky labels set in the middle a A5 sheet, so 
programming a way to reset top and left margins wasn't too hard. 
Convenient seeing that I wanted to use an HP LaserJet, though relatively 
expensive compared with other ways of putting labels on A4/A5 sheets.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 9:11:08 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 20:20:19 +0000, T i m wrote:

> I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on the
> Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?
>
OK. That just says that sshd is controlled by ssh.service. Makes sense, I 
guess, since you'd normally only launch ssh from a user login to run 
scripts on a remote system.

> That sounds a bit advanced for my needs this time Martin but thanks
> anyway. ;-)
>
Bear it in mind - you may find it useful in future because it will let 
you run graphical programs with the display on your PC (or run an RPi 
desktop on the PC.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 9:16:45 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 20:08:01 +0000, T i m wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
> <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:13:41 +0000, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:42:54 +0000,
>>> T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
>>
>>>>  You never know, once I've typed them 1000 times I might remember
>>>>  them!
>>>>  ;-)
>>> 
>>> "I wrote them down in my diary so that I wouldn't *have* to remember."
>>>
>>Two bash commands everybody should know
>>
>>"apropos subject", e.g. 'apropos CUPS' lists all commands with CUPS or
>>                   cups in its manpage one-line summary And if you think
>>                   it missed something obvious,
>>                   run "sudo updatedb" to update the apropos database.
>>
>>"man subject"      Goes without saying, really. Manpages are the
>>                   motherlode of info about commands, their config files
>>                   and C library functions, though do run "man man" at
>>                   least once to get some idea of the manpage
>>                   subdivisions Try "man getopt" and "man 3 getopt" to
>>                   see what I mean.
>> 
>> 
> The problem with that (from a Linux noobs POV) is that in most help
> provided by such methods only helps those who are already computer code
> literate or have a mind that is attune to / with such things. Mine isn't
> and in spite of building, installing and maintaining PC's, servers,
> network systems and providing CS at all sorts of levels for many year
> ... along with being a CNI, MCT and A+CT ... I've never done much in the
> way of programming, created a website or even a spreadsheet for that
> matter!
>
I put it that way because AKAIK there is no graphical equivalent of 
apropos and man. However, you're going to need the manpages if/when you 
start writing bash scripts.
 
> Being a poor / slow typist, poor speller having a terrible short term
> memory (for illogical / un-intuitive stuff) makes command copy-typing
> pretty unpredictable, hence why I like to have a GUI and a browser as at
> least I can then copy-paste etc. ;-)
>
Bash helps a lot with that. Look up 'filename and command completion' and 
'retrieving and editing commands from bash history. Both are designed as  
builtins to bash and are designed for poor, two-finger typists, among 
which I count myself.
 

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 9:21:32 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:21:32 -0000 (UTC),
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>, in
<o3moss$rr3$3@dont-email.me> wrote:

>  I put it that way because AKAIK there is no graphical equivalent of 
>  apropos and man. However, you're going to need the manpages if/when you 
>  start writing bash scripts.

This is as close as it comes, but it's just man and apropos displayed
on a web page.

https://linux.die.net/man/

And the whole "how do I do $SUBJECT" fed into your favorite search
engine. Generally, you'll find solid answers.

>  Bash helps a lot with that. Look up 'filename and command completion' and 
>  'retrieving and editing commands from bash history. Both are designed as  
>  builtins to bash and are designed for poor, two-finger typists, among 
>  which I count myself.

Yes. Also the history command, arrow keys, and the control sequences
that allow you to move easily on a command line.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
0
I
12/24/2016 9:31:59 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:08:32 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> On 2016-12-24, T i m wrote:
>>I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on the
>>Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?
> 
> sshd was enabled by default until the most recent version of Raspbian;
> now it's not (as a security measure because of default passwords), and
> at least for me the standard method for enabling it pre-boot (i.e.
> creating a file boot/ssh on the SD card image) doesn't work either.

What does 'sudo systemd status ssh' show? If it says 'disabled', this 
should fix it:

sudo systemd enable ssh
sudo systemd start ssh 



-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |
0
Martin
12/24/2016 9:37:03 PM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:31:59 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
<n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

<polite snip of stuff that means going further under the hood of Linux
than I want to use it as a tool / appliance than a hobby or interest>
>
>Yes. Also the history command,

Don't know that (or did and it's been forgotten along with many things
I only had a cursory knowledge of). ;-)

>arrow keys

Ah, I use the up arrow to go back though my CLI history as I used to
do that in the DOS days.

>nd the control sequences
>that allow you to move easily on a command line.

About the only Ctrl sequences I ever use (if that's what they are) are
^c and ^v ... and that's about it. But as I said previously, I'm no
cli jockey, not into 'programming' (and I include scripting) and
basically left all that after creating and editing autoexec.bat and
config.sys in DOS.

As a Field Support tech for most of my life and installing and
maintaining *hardware* (and indirectly software and users etc) for
many years ...  I got involved in instigating, building and
maintaining about 40 PC's and associated servers and gateways for the
Co I worked for at the time, eventually doing that alongside my
everyday role of running the CS Help Desk.

In all that time (and prior that with home computers like the ZX81,
16/48 Spectrums, QL, BBC B, Atari STFM, Commodore C128 an the TRS80),
my interest in 'computers' was only getting them running stuff (mostly
games) and getting them to connect to other stuff (like printers and
modems etc) and work for other people.

To this day I rarely read the manuals, only doing so as a last resort
because the program / hardware wasn't intuitive enough to be 'figured
out' by just usage.

So for me, little of this is about the journey or the need to learn
something new / specific, it's really all about the final goal but
having some involvement in it along the way.

Like this Pi Dymo Printserver project started purely out of the idea
of being able to share a printer on my LAN (mainly for our daughter
and I) because someone pointed me towards the idea and I thought I'd
give it a go. Ideally (for my purposes) I would download a pre
configured solution that I might be able to tweak (hopefully without
breaking).

Now, I don't expect everyone to want to build their own car (like I
did 30 years ago) or build their own boat (like I did 45 years ago) or
assume anyone could just read a manual on the subject and then be able
*and* enjoy doing it.

So, if someone is willing and happy to point me in the right direction
I will generally give it a try and let them know (with thanks) how I
got on ... but maybe that's what I assume anyone would do for anyone
else, if asked for help and guidance on something they are good at and
without any expectation that they would be willing or able to learn
such depths themselves.

I just wanted to get the above out there in the hope it will help folk
understand better where I am at and hopefully help them wasting their
time covering depths that are way beyond my skillset or interest. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. A while back I was doing a fair bit of Arduino stuff but many
just downloading other people sketches and where I could, tweaking
them to my own needs. Luckily I have a mate who is a pretty good C
programmer and he helps me with code and I in turn help him with the
electronics side. ;-)
0
T
12/25/2016 12:14:49 AM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:08:32 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West
<roger+csrp201612@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

>On 2016-12-24, T i m wrote:
>>I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on
>>the Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?
>
>sshd was enabled by default until the most recent version of Raspbian;
>now it's not (as a security measure because of default passwords), and
>at least for me the standard method for enabling it pre-boot (i.e.
>creating a file boot/ssh on the SD card image) doesn't work either.

Ah, so not just me then. ;-(

Thanks for that feedback Roger.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. This is a good example of the sort of problem I encounter with
people offering me (or others) help on Linuxy stuff who aren't using
the exact same distro, version and DE etc. Compared with the relative
std base of Windows (or OSX / Android), managing Linux for someone not
into the whole thing fairly heavily, can be like trying to heard cats.
;-(

OOI, on spite of being involved with 'computers' and 'IT' for over 40
years, I still don't know anyone in person and especially locally who
knows more than me about Linux (and I know very little). For Windows,
OSX or Android / iOS I have many people who could offer me help (not
that I need it on those very often).

0
T
12/25/2016 12:22:37 AM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:37:03 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:08:32 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>
>> On 2016-12-24, T i m wrote:
>>>I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on the
>>>Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?
>> 
>> sshd was enabled by default until the most recent version of Raspbian;
>> now it's not (as a security measure because of default passwords), and
>> at least for me the standard method for enabling it pre-boot (i.e.
>> creating a file boot/ssh on the SD card image) doesn't work either.
>
>What does 'sudo systemd status ssh' show? If it says 'disabled', this 
>should fix it:

I'm not sure if the question (also?) applied to me but on the latest
Raspbian Pi that returns:

'Excess arguments'?

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/25/2016 12:31:39 AM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 18:34:38 +0000,
T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>, in
<s2ct5clc9ab47dk9gs4nbjil9aft6s1nnf@4ax.com> wrote:
>  On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:13:41 -0000 (UTC), I R A Darth Aggie
> <n0b0dy@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> >"I wrote them down in my diary so that I wouldn't *have* to remember."
> 
>  Indiana Jones?

Correct. More specifically, Dr. Henry Jones (Sean Connery).

man is good. Margin notes are also good.

-- 
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
0
I
12/25/2016 12:32:57 AM
On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:16:45 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 20:20:19 +0000, T i m wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if this helps but if I type 'sudo service ssh start' on the
>> Pi CLI, I *can* then connect to it using Putty on the XP Mac Mini?
>>
>OK. That just says that sshd is controlled by ssh.service. Makes sense, I 
>guess, since you'd normally only launch ssh from a user login to run 
>scripts on a remote system.

Understood (thanks).
>
>> That sounds a bit advanced for my needs this time Martin but thanks
>> anyway. ;-)
>>
>Bear it in mind - you may find it useful in future because it will let 
>you run graphical programs with the display on your PC (or run an RPi 
>desktop on the PC.

Oh, ok, like often I do now with Teamviewer (inc to / from Linux) or
used to do 30 years ago with the likes of PCAnywhere (for DOS). ;-)

At the end of the day, I could have / leave both Webmin and a GUI
desktop running on my RPi printserver as it's not going to be doing
much most of the time. However, I think I understand doing so make the
Pi less secure and so as I (now) know how to disable both the DE and
Webmin at boot time, but can start either should I ever need (and SSH
etc), then I think I'm covered (as it will generally be in this house
somewhere). ;-)

Cheers, T i m
0
T
12/25/2016 12:37:52 AM
On 25/12/16 02:14, T i m wrote:
> As a Field Support tech for most of my life and installing and
> maintaining *hardware* (and indirectly software and users etc) for
> many years ...  ...  I rarely read the manuals, only doing so as a last resort
> because the program / hardware wasn't intuitive enough to be 'figured
> out' by just usage.

And doesn't it show?

0
The
12/25/2016 4:20:56 AM
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