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Xenix for 386: Development Set wanted

I'm in the process of building a Xenix machine, with the aim of 
restoring what would have been a well endowed Xenix 386 system back in 
the day.

One of the missing pieces is the Xenix 386 Development Set, which was 
not included with the standard SCO Xenix distribution.

Does anyone have the floppies for the Development Set around (or floppy 
images)?

I would make the project much more fun and "tinkerable"...
0
pepe5 (204)
12/28/2010 6:40:23 PM
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Pepe wrote:
> I'm in the process of building a Xenix machine, with the aim of 
> restoring what would have been a well endowed Xenix 386 system back in 
> the day.
> 
> One of the missing pieces is the Xenix 386 Development Set, which was 
> not included with the standard SCO Xenix distribution.
> 
> Does anyone have the floppies for the Development Set around (or floppy 
> images)?
> 
> I would make the project much more fun and "tinkerable"...

It's not the official SCO Development Set for Xenix, but a binary of GCC 
version 1.37.1 has been found in a FTP server of the Soviet Union (.su), 
and it has been tested and it works:

http://virtuallyfun.blogspot.com/2010/03/gzip-for-xenix.html

The GCC binary for Xenix, with a binary of GZIP, and some more, can now 
be obtained here:

http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/xenix/

Happy times ahead!
0
pepe5 (204)
12/29/2010 7:11:07 PM
On 12/29/2010 2:11 PM, Pepe wrote:
> Pepe wrote:
>> I'm in the process of building a Xenix machine, with the aim of
>> restoring what would have been a well endowed Xenix 386 system back in
>> the day.
>>
>> One of the missing pieces is the Xenix 386 Development Set, which was
>> not included with the standard SCO Xenix distribution.
>>
>> Does anyone have the floppies for the Development Set around (or
>> floppy images)?
>>
>> I would make the project much more fun and "tinkerable"...
>
> It's not the official SCO Development Set for Xenix, but a binary of GCC
> version 1.37.1 has been found in a FTP server of the Soviet Union (.su),
> and it has been tested and it works:
>
> http://virtuallyfun.blogspot.com/2010/03/gzip-for-xenix.html
>
> The GCC binary for Xenix, with a binary of GZIP, and some more, can now
> be obtained here:
>
> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/xenix/
>
> Happy times ahead!
>

I thought all the gcc for xenix were still missing the crt files from 
the devel kit? a compiler is not enough by itself.

I used to maintain a few xenix boxes and I did dig into this a bit way 
back around '99. Without the real devel kit, the gcc packages couldn't 
actually create an executable.

Not until osr5.0.5 did sco include the linker and application 
development libraries package on the base install cd which provides the 
crt files needed for gcc to actually produce working executables.

-- 
bkw
0
brian109 (760)
12/29/2010 8:20:31 PM
Brian K. White wrote:
> On 12/29/2010 2:11 PM, Pepe wrote:
> 
>> Pepe wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a Xenix machine, with the aim of
>>> restoring what would have been a well endowed Xenix 386 system back in
>>> the day.
>>>
>>> One of the missing pieces is the Xenix 386 Development Set, which was
>>> not included with the standard SCO Xenix distribution.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have the floppies for the Development Set around (or
>>> floppy images)?
>>>
>>> I would make the project much more fun and "tinkerable"...
>>
>>
>> It's not the official SCO Development Set for Xenix, but a binary of GCC
>> version 1.37.1 has been found in a FTP server of the Soviet Union (.su),
>> and it has been tested and it works:
>>
>> http://virtuallyfun.blogspot.com/2010/03/gzip-for-xenix.html
>>
>> The GCC binary for Xenix, with a binary of GZIP, and some more, can now
>> be obtained here:
>>
>> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/xenix/
>>
>> Happy times ahead!
>>
> 
> I thought all the gcc for xenix were still missing the crt files from 
> the devel kit? a compiler is not enough by itself.
> 
> I used to maintain a few xenix boxes and I did dig into this a bit way 
> back around '99. Without the real devel kit, the gcc packages couldn't 
> actually create an executable.
> 
> Not until osr5.0.5 did sco include the linker and application 
> development libraries package on the base install cd which provides the 
> crt files needed for gcc to actually produce working executables.

The referenced GCC package for Xenix 386 has been used successfully to 
compile several text-based games in the Xenix platform. Apparently, the 
package bundles the system header files needed to do such a thing. Must 
be something the Soviet folks did...

If you are so inclined, read these blog articles for the details:

http://virtuallyfun.blogspot.com/search/label/xenix
0
pepe5 (204)
12/29/2010 9:39:53 PM
I think I must post an URL relevant to this thread:

http://vetusware.com

Go to "Category OS", go to "last page", go to "Xenix 2.3.4", and then 
get a 3.5" 1.44M floppy drive ready...
0
pepe5 (204)
12/29/2010 10:31:12 PM
On 12/29/2010 4:39 PM, Pepe wrote:
> Brian K. White wrote:
>> On 12/29/2010 2:11 PM, Pepe wrote:
>>
>>> Pepe wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm in the process of building a Xenix machine, with the aim of
>>>> restoring what would have been a well endowed Xenix 386 system back in
>>>> the day.
>>>>
>>>> One of the missing pieces is the Xenix 386 Development Set, which was
>>>> not included with the standard SCO Xenix distribution.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have the floppies for the Development Set around (or
>>>> floppy images)?
>>>>
>>>> I would make the project much more fun and "tinkerable"...
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not the official SCO Development Set for Xenix, but a binary of GCC
>>> version 1.37.1 has been found in a FTP server of the Soviet Union (.su),
>>> and it has been tested and it works:
>>>
>>> http://virtuallyfun.blogspot.com/2010/03/gzip-for-xenix.html
>>>
>>> The GCC binary for Xenix, with a binary of GZIP, and some more, can now
>>> be obtained here:
>>>
>>> http://vpsland.superglobalmegacorp.com/install/xenix/
>>>
>>> Happy times ahead!
>>>
>>
>> I thought all the gcc for xenix were still missing the crt files from
>> the devel kit? a compiler is not enough by itself.
>>
>> I used to maintain a few xenix boxes and I did dig into this a bit way
>> back around '99. Without the real devel kit, the gcc packages couldn't
>> actually create an executable.
>>
>> Not until osr5.0.5 did sco include the linker and application
>> development libraries package on the base install cd which provides
>> the crt files needed for gcc to actually produce working executables.
>
> The referenced GCC package for Xenix 386 has been used successfully to
> compile several text-based games in the Xenix platform. Apparently, the
> package bundles the system header files needed to do such a thing. Must
> be something the Soviet folks did...
>
> If you are so inclined, read these blog articles for the details:
>
> http://virtuallyfun.blogspot.com/search/label/xenix
>

You probably want to know about also:
ftp://ftp.celestial.com/pub/sco-ports/xnx/
ftp://ftp.sco.com/pub/SLS/xnx*

And the y2k patch that was removed from the SLS directory above:
http://www.webservertalk.com/archive261-2004-5-243676.html

I don't know where the *.ltr (readme) file went for that patch, but as I 
recall it installed a utility that you ran, giving it some executable as 
an argument, and the utility binary-edited the executable to replace 
certain library calls with y2k compatible ones. The resulting executable 
may still not be y2k compatible. That depends on how the author coded 
the app. Some programs magically became fully y2k compatible, some got 
only partially fixed but at least didn't break or get worse, some didn't 
appear to change at all. I didn't find anything that actually broke but 
that doesn't mean much. My guess is that SCO removed the SLS above due 
to discovering problems for some people and the nightmare of trying to 
actually support not only a 1991 OS after 2000, but one that may or may 
not have had any or all of it's executables munged in such a deep way.

An example of what you can expect:
I had a bbx3 interpreter that passed all y2k tests after patching. I 
wrote small test programs in bbx that used all of bbx's date functions 
to do calculations across the various magic problem dates and they all 
checked out. So Basis Inc's source for bbx didn't go out of it's way to 
be y2k-stupid, and once the functions in the OS's libc started working, 
so did the bbx binary. But I had an application written in bbx that was 
absolutely riddled with y2k breakage and it was way too big to fix by 
myself. So even though the OS and the bbx interpreter were good, the app 
still wasn't.

There are still some other lingering Xenix info out there if you keep 
looking, but they are obviously getting rarer as old sites go away or 
reorganize. Old posts in this and the xenix newsgroups are probably most 
helpful for finding pointers to things and various things people learned 
the hard way and aren't really documented anywhere.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.xenix/topics
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.xenix.sco/topics

The rzsz from above is a life saver if you don't have networking. It's 
small enough to fit on a floppy, or more importantly, it's small enough 
to transfer over 9600 serial with %put/%get in the stock cu with no 
error correction, and once on the box you can use it to get everything 
else on there a lot more conveniently than floppies.
I used to use a floppy or cu to get rzsz on a box first, and then the 
first thing I'd do is use rz to get kermit onto the box, then kermit to 
get everything else I wanted, and gzip would be among the first.

Without gzip, "compress -H" is the highest compression util you have on 
the box stock. It's about twice as comressing as without the -H, which 
is significant when you think of the tiny hard drives almost filled with 
data from years of operating some business. But the "-H" creates .Z 
files that only sco's (xenix or unix) compress knows how to decompress.

Another hint: Xenix itself couldn't handle serial at any speed over 
9600, and couldn't do hardware flow control except on the modem-control 
versions of the serial device nodes, which means your serial comm app 
needs to know how to deal with, or ignore, the dcd and ring indicator 
control lines unless you're really using a modem or a serial cable that 
shorts those pins out. But, equinox and digiboard and other multi-port 
serial cards came with drivers that could do 115200 (some even higher) 
and use rts/cts normally. So, if you don't have tcp, or even if you have 
tcp but no nics (ie you have slip or ppp) you really want a digiboard or 
equinox card and it's drivers and support utils, and kermit. I have no 
idea what it would take to try to virtualize that.
The drivers are just software and can be downloaded and installed easily 
enough, but I have no idea what it would take to try to virtualize the 
hardware the drivers expect, or if you even need to. Perhaps the 
enhanced utils that come with the drivers are all you need

-- 
bkw
0
brian109 (760)
12/30/2010 7:22:24 PM
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010, Brian K. White wrote:
....
>You probably want to know about also:
>ftp://ftp.celestial.com/pub/sco-ports/xnx/

I considered mentioning that, but it's way out of date unless one
is interested in 14 year old versions of Samba et al.  The
majority of the packages go back to 1993 which is when we
switched all our system development to SCO Unix after it had
added symbolic links and long file names.  I never considered the
earlier versions of SCO Unix to be more than a somewhat glorified
version of Xenix with added features such as a security system
that could render the system read-only even to root.

It does have gzip on a compressed tar file to aid in unpacking
the other packages.

Other than that it has a some basic communications and file
transfer programs including ckermit and rzsz.

For spreadsheet buffs, it also has the character based sc program
which uses mostly vi commands.

The packages are all gzip'ed tar files containing source and
compiled binaries as most people didn't have the necessary
development tools to build their own software.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:   bill@celestial.com  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          (206) 236-1676  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax:            (206) 232-9186  Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

A perpetual and unlimited debt represents deficit spending as a social
principle. It means a progressive redistribution of wealth by will of
government until there is no more fat to divide; after that comes a level
rationing of the national income. It means in the end the cheapening
of money and then inflation, whereby the middle class is economically
murdered in its sleep. In the arsenal of revolution the perfect weapon
is inflation. -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was
0
bill5504 (466)
12/30/2010 7:44:29 PM
Brian K. White typed (on Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 02:22:24PM -0500):
| I don't know where the *.ltr (readme) file went for that patch, but
| as I recall it installed a utility that you ran, giving it some
| executable as an argument, and the utility binary-edited the
| executable to replace certain library calls with y2k compatible


I have here:
   -rw-r--r--    1 root     sys      1474560 Feb 10  1999 xnx427d
   -rw-r--r--    1 root     sys        18451 Feb 10  1999 xnx427d.ltr

The first is a floppy image, so running 'tar tvf xnx427d' lists:
    r--r--r--  3/3        0 Jan 15 19:42 1999 ./tmp/_lbl/prd=xnx427/typ=n286/rel=1.0.0d/vol=01
    rw-r--r--  0/0     1712 Jan 18 15:02 1999 ./tmp/perms/xnx427
    rwxrwxrwx  3/3     3582 Dec 11 04:03 1996 ./tmp/perms/prep.xnx427
    rwx--x--x  3/3    19724 Jul 14 12:46 1995 ./tmp/xnx427/xnx/bin/touch
    rwx--x--x  3/3    18212 Jul 14 12:46 1995 ./tmp/xnx427/xnx/bin/sddate
    rwx------  3/3    18012 Jul 14 12:46 1995 ./tmp/xnx427/xnx/etc/setclock
    rwx--x--x  3/3    18980 Jul 14 12:46 1995 ./tmp/xnx427/xnx/lib/cvtdate
    --x--s--x  0/3    27513 Jan 08 15:38 1999 ./tmp/xnx427/xnx/usr/bin/at
    rwxr-xr-x  3/3    18375 Jan 16 15:51 2002 ./tmp/init.xnx427
    rwx--x--x  3/3    20244 Nov 25 17:11 1998 ./usr/bin/fix2000
    rwxr-xr-x  3/3    21111 Jan 22 18:55 1999 ./usr/lib/custom/xnx427.rmv
    r--r--r--  3/3     1031 Apr 01 10:02 1996 ./usr/lib/custom/xnx427/fix/op2
    r--r--r--  3/3       68 Apr 01 10:02 1996 ./usr/lib/custom/xnx427/fix/wrd
    r--r--r--  3/3       20 Apr 01 10:02 1996 ./usr/lib/custom/xnx427/fix/fox
    r--r--r--  3/3      223 Aug 07 07:46 1996 ./usr/lib/custom/xnx427/fix/net
    r--r--r--  3/3     1663 Nov 01 04:05 1996 ./usr/lib/custom/xnx427/fix/xn

-- 
JP
0
jpr5879 (1159)
12/30/2010 8:17:29 PM
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:22:24 -0500, "Brian K. White" <brian@aljex.com>
wrote:

The Xenix FAQ disappeared from Chip Rosenthal's site some time ago.
Here's a text only version of the Xenix FAQ:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/xenix-faq.txt>

Also, there are some rather severe hardware limitations to running
Xenix.  The big one is that 2.3.4 will only recognize 16MBytes of RAM
and a 2GB max hard disk drive.  Getting it to run on anything faster
than a 486DX2/66 is problematic.  There are also a very limited number
of ethernet cards supported (WD8003, 3C503, etc).  Unfortunately, I
still have exactly one (non-paying) customer running Xenix so I have
to maintain a stockpile of ancient junk to keep their stuff alive.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
0
jeffl1 (171)
12/30/2010 9:24:29 PM
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:22:24 -0500, "Brian K. White" <brian@aljex.com>
> wrote:
> 
> The Xenix FAQ disappeared from Chip Rosenthal's site some time ago.
> Here's a text only version of the Xenix FAQ:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/xenix-faq.txt>

Thanks for the pointer, Jeff.

I also found a slightly more recent Xenix FAQ here:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/faq/archiv/sco-xenix/msg00000.html

> Also, there are some rather severe hardware limitations to running
> Xenix.  The big one is that 2.3.4 will only recognize 16MBytes of RAM
> and a 2GB max hard disk drive.  Getting it to run on anything faster
> than a 486DX2/66 is problematic.  There are also a very limited number
> of ethernet cards supported (WD8003, 3C503, etc).

Limitations which make it just right to the retrocomputing scene: old 
software for vintage hardware, perfect marriage.
0
pepe5 (204)
12/30/2010 11:55:11 PM
Brian K. White wrote:
> You probably want to know about also:
> ftp://ftp.celestial.com/pub/sco-ports/xnx/

Hmm, there are a lot of goodies for Xenix there. Thanks for the pointer, 
and thanks also to Bill Campbell for sharing them.

> And the y2k patch that was removed from the SLS directory above:
> http://www.webservertalk.com/archive261-2004-5-243676.html

Nice. I just downloaded that "xnx427d.Z" patch. And thanks for the notes 
on what it does.

> The rzsz from above is a life saver if you don't have networking. It's 
> small enough to fit on a floppy, or more importantly, it's small enough 
> to transfer over 9600 serial with %put/%get in the stock cu with no 
> error correction, and once on the box you can use it to get everything 
> else on there a lot more conveniently than floppies.
> I used to use a floppy or cu to get rzsz on a box first, and then the 
> first thing I'd do is use rz to get kermit onto the box, then kermit to 
> get everything else I wanted, and gzip would be among the first.
> 
> Without gzip, "compress -H" is the highest compression util you have on 
> the box stock. It's about twice as comressing as without the -H, which 
> is significant when you think of the tiny hard drives almost filled with 
> data from years of operating some business. But the "-H" creates .Z 
> files that only sco's (xenix or unix) compress knows how to decompress.
> 
> Another hint: Xenix itself couldn't handle serial at any speed over 
> 9600, and couldn't do hardware flow control except on the modem-control 
> versions of the serial device nodes, which means your serial comm app 
> needs to know how to deal with, or ignore, the dcd and ring indicator 
> control lines unless you're really using a modem or a serial cable that 
> shorts those pins out.

Very informative. I have saved that info with my Xenix notes.

About the Xenix virtualization, that is not my focus currently. I have 
vintage hardware to play with, and I like that old metal kit.

Anyway, to virtualize the ethernet NICs which Xenix supported would only 
be (perhaps) doable in Qemu and/or Xen, but not in closed-source VMware. 
SLIP would be much easier to do in Xenix inside VMware, and then your 
tip about using an upgraded and updated 3rd party serial driver will be 
worthy of investigation.
0
pepe5 (204)
12/31/2010 12:09:11 AM
Brian K. White wrote:

> Without gzip, "compress -H" is the highest compression util you have on 
> the box stock. It's about twice as comressing as without the -H, which 
> is significant when you think of the tiny hard drives almost filled with 
> data from years of operating some business. But the "-H" creates .Z 
> files that only sco's (xenix or unix) compress knows how to decompress.

Actually, `gzip` knows that format (as well as regular `compress` and
ancient `pack`).  I think your statement is strictly true in that no
other program named `compress` knows about the -H format.

>Bela<
0
filbo (325)
1/2/2011 2:25:44 PM
W dniu czwartek, 30 grudnia 2010 22:24:29 UTC+1 u=C5=BCytkownik Jeff Lieber=
mann napisa=C5=82:
> Also, there are some rather severe hardware limitations to running
> Xenix.  The big one is that 2.3.4 (...)Getting it to run on anything fast=
er
> than a 486DX2/66 is problematic. =20

What about Pentium MMX 166MHz?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14556313/SAM_1180.JPG

[Also, hello!]
0
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